Posts Tagged ‘fire department


Conversations with Socialist

Debating with Liberals has got to be the most difficult and stupidest thing I do. I think every time I debate them they end up going off on some tangent and then end up calling me a “kiddo” (among other things). Gee, so much for some intelligent debate!

SERIOUSLY. QUIT CALLING ME A KIDDO. It implies the fact that a kid is not wise or not intelligent enough to debate me like an adult. It pisses me off royally and it just shows that you cannot fully debate me on the issue and instead have to attack me personally. I have had at least 4 people on separate issues call me this and I am really getting tired of it.

I am going to paste a few debates that I’ve had for your enjoyment (some of them are actually ongoing…). All conversations have taken place on Facebook.

Original Post: W H A T ? ? ?

Kyle Huwer: Good. What makes Obama a better human being to listen to than Bush?
Meike Capps-Schubert: He can speek?
Meike Capps-Schubert: and contray to Bush and me he can build a full gramaticaly correct sentense in english , but I never was the president of the United States of America
Kyle Huwer: When you say, “he can speak” do you mean “he can speak well/eloquently/passionately”?
Cornelia Maier: More Republican bullshit…yeah, grammar is known to be Bush’s foe!!
Kyle Huwer: So when people desire their children to listen to one person over another, that is “Republican bullshit”?
Redjade InHungary: Now you wish to deny others the ability to have and express their own opinion because you may be offended?
Kyle Huwer: Who said I am offended? I am simply asking you, or anyone, to answer the question. Where did I say anything about denying others the ability to have and express their opinions?
Sigrid Knutson: Kyle, both Bush Sr & Reagan gave the same kind of speech to children when they were president. Bush Jr did not choose to do this. So, the question becomes, “what makes Bush Sr & Reagan okay to listen to, but not Obama?”
Sigrid Knutson: I would assume that many of these Texas parents listened to Bush Srs speech to children when he was president.
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: Where did I say that we need to listen to Bush HW or Reagan over Obama?
Sigrid Knutson: @Kyle. You didn’t. I just turned your question around, after thinking that I answered your primary question.
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: So what was the point of you mentioning that GHWB and Reagan gave a similar speech?
Sigrid Knutson: Kyle, you asked, “What makes Obama a better human being to listen to than Bush?” I asked, “What makes Bush Sr & Reagan okay to listen to, but not Obama?” I’m sorry that you don’t seem to be able to comprehend this.
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: In normal conversation, when someone asks a question, you do not answer it with another question. Sorry that you do not understand that a question begs an answer, not a question. Answer mine and I will answer yours!
Sigrid Knutson: kyle kyle kyle. here all this time i thought you were a gal… turns out you are just another dude ♥
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: Are you avoiding the question or are you just taking the opportunity for a personal attack?
Sigrid Knutson: neither, kiddo :)
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: Then why did you NOT answer my question, still?
Sigrid Knutson: you make me weary, kiddo. you don’t want an answer. you still want a fight.
Kyle Huwer: I do want an answer. If you don’t want to answer my question, then fine. But don’t tell me that I want to fight when all I am doing is asking you to explain yourself so that I do not get anything wrong or put words in your mouth. And again, belittling with the “kiddo” talk. THANKS!

Original Post:

Kyle Huwer: This is stupid. This is absolutely PLAGUED with strawmen logical fallacies. GARBAGE!
Redjade InHungary: i think this is satire – but, ya never know these days!
Kyle Huwer: While it may be satire, does it not portray an idea that the “Conservatives” do not want anything socialized?
Redjade InHungary: huh Kyle?
Kyle Huwer: Satire means – to portray an idea in an “over the top” way as to make fun of it, correct?
Redjade InHungary: Not quite, satire usually means very close to the truth, but also absurd.
Kyle Huwer: I did not know that over the-top-meant “false.” Nevertheless…. So what is this video satirizing that is “close to the truth”?
Redjade InHungary: that Free Market fundamentalists are nuts. and there are many that do believe in privatizing the Fire Dept, it is not an exaggeration – just their portrayal. Maybe you dont like the joke, but since when do you expect humour to be accurate in anything? It’s humour, maybe not good humour, but it is humour.
Kyle Huwer: You know the funny thing… Here in Arizona right up the road from me in Scottsdale they have a privatized fire department and they – the people and the city – have called it a success. Whatdya know?!?! But hey, I’d be willing to hear some of this evidence/proof that free-market people are nuts…
Redjade InHungary: Kyle, I apologize for stepping on the big toe of your economic religion – but for most people in the world, the ‘Free Market’ is not ‘free’ and nor is it really a ‘market’ – it is usually associated with corruption and seen as something that is imposed on you. A democratic State running essential services like a Fire Dept or healthcare is the better option – and it works most of the time quite well.
Kyle Huwer: I just don’t appreciate being satirized and then called a nutjob for believing something. I agree, the free market is not free – it is socialized. America while it may claim to have a “free market” is not free at all. Zero. What we have is a pseudo free-market and you are right, it has a lot of corruption. However, that does not mean at all that we need to regulate it even more. Likewise, America is not a democracy. It is a Republic. However, it too is so molested that it is pretty much a democracy. While some services can be run sufficiently by the government – I will bet my life on it that a purely capitalist system can do it better, cheaper, and more efficiently. Guaranteed. Scottsdale alluded to above is proof…. Read More. If you want to give up % of your money to participate in government program XYZ, then do it, but don’t FORCE me into YOUR system. Is that too unfair to ask?
Redjade InHungary: Kyle – who is forcing you to do ANYTHING?
Kyle Huwer: If we have socialized medicine, can I opt out? Can I opt out of any of these public services (yes, even the fire department) if I want to?
Redjade InHungary: Kyle, if you have a child in your home and it is burning – YES, the big bad evil STATE should break into your home and save your child from dying. And because your home is on fire, other homes will also catch on fire, YES. and the examples go on… Why is that ‘libertarians’ only think the world is about me, me and me?
Kyle Huwer: How about I opt out of the fire department – and I take full responsibility for the loss of my child AND my neighbor’s home burning? My situation, my responsibility! What proof do you have that libertarians think it is about me, me, and me?
Redjade InHungary: sorry had to wash the dishes… ‘What proof’?
well, i used to be a Libertarian a long time ago – then I grew up and realized there is such a thing as society and civilization…. ‘me, me, and me’? Your replies are such an example.
Meike Capps-Schubert: Kyle – who is paying for your fire department ?
Kyle Huwer: @Redjade: So you = me? No, it does not work like that. My replies are nothing of your “proof.” So because I want to opt out of socialized programs, this is now all about “me”? And once again, “and then I grew up” yet another emotionally loaded statement. Are you implying that I am immature?
@Meike: Are you asking for the current payee or who is paying for MY fire department?
Meike Capps-Schubert: the fire department you are talking about in Scottsdale
Kyle Huwer: @Meike: The people that are covered by the fire department, are covered by the fire department. Who else would pay for it?
Meike Capps-Schubert: so the fire fighters work for free or pay for them selfs and their equitment ?
Kyle Huwer: @Meike: They are a business. So, they buy the equipment beforehand and then provide a service to their area. Are you confusing a paid public service with a free, free-market service?
Meike Capps-Schubert: WHO is paying their work they have to get payed from somewhere so who is paying it the companie? do people pay the companie after they put out a fire or how does that work – where does the money come from – what so hard to understand?
Sigrid Knutson: this is a joke… aimed at those against single payer health insurance.
Sigrid Knutson: and Kyle, please don’t comment.
Redjade InHungary: @kyle. I did a short amount of googling about your Capitalist Scottsdale Fire Dept. Here they are: Their web site says they provide Fire protect and other services to communities and the private sector (companies etc) – but NO MENTION of providing to individuals, like you.
This means that Tax Funded local governments make a decision For You and Hire Them and use Your Money that the government Took From You and you have No Choice!… This is certainly not a ‘pure’ socialized’ Fire Dept, but the principle that society needs to make social decisions to protect society is still upheld in the case you point to. Understand, comrade?
Kyle Huwer: @Meike: The people who are covered! There is nothing else to this idea Meike! The only difference between your system is that the private company can lose it’s contract if they act poorly. With the public option, they can do whatever they want and maintain their position.
@Sigrid: You bet I am going to reply…. I want an answer why this is “close to the truth” that Redjade alluded to! Are you trying to suppress my opinion?
@Redjade: Provide services to the COMMUNITY. Right, and who lives in the community? Individual citizens! So if you think that they do not care for individual citizens, then WHO are they caring for in the community – as you mentioned?… Also, Their mission statement includes, “Works within the communities we serve to build trust and promote the well-being of the CITIZENS.” Also, “Rural/Metro Corporation is a leading provider of emergency and non-emergency medical transportation services, fire protection and other safety-related services to municipal, RESIDENTIAL…”
Sigrid Knutson: An outraged citizens group in Scottsdale is looking to replace the private Rural/Metro Fire Department with a municipal fire department. The Committee to Protect Scottsdale and Our Firefighters claims Rural/Metro’s staffing and response are unacceptable and unsafe.
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: No I do not need his name. So what is your point?
First off – I do not know where “here” is nor am I going to go snooping to try to find out where “here” is.
So you think that a public option that bills you is exactly what I am talking about? Where did I say that?
Sigrid Knutson:
Satire: Main Entry: sat·ire
Pronunciation: \ˈsa-ˌtī(-ə)r\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin satura, satira, perhaps from (lanx) satura dish of mixed ingredients, from feminine of satur well-fed; akin to Latin satis enough — more at sad
Date: 1501… Read More
1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
about an hour ago
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: GREAT! If they are doing a horrible job, then get them out!
However, if we look at the date of that article, that was written in 2002! It is 7 years later and they are STILL providing service. Must have not been THAT bad. Right?
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: Are you just going to cut and copy or do you have a point?
Sigrid Knutson: When your opponent sets up a straw man, set it on fire and kick the cinders around the stage. Don’t worry about losing the Strawperson-American community vote.
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: Yes, strawman…. Are you doing homework or do you have a point? Quit cutting and copying and say what you want to say!
Sigrid Knutson: i’m 56. been around a few blocks. so have you. stop thinking everyone is out to get you. they are not.
Sigrid Knutson: ps… i don’t give a shit about fire depts OR strawmen. i care more about you as a person.
Sigrid Knutson: Kyle:
Kyle Huwer: @Sigrid: If you do not want to debate, then why did you step into the ring? I am asking you to answer a few questions and you refuse to do so here, and on other posts. Why? You continually C&C stuff and never say your position. I am not going to guess your position, so say it and say it with conviction! I still have no idea what you are getting at with the straw man or the 2002 report. I am asking you, or anyone, to explain!… Also, if you know that I’ve “been around the block a few times” then why did you call me a “kiddo” in the other thread? That is offensive and for some reason my opponents always use that as a “nice” way to belittle me. Am I just a kiddo or am I an intelligent adult here, Sigrid?
Sigrid Knutson: you are younger than my sons. you had a hell of a time with your CO & your wife. i am guessing that you — like me — are angry at the world. so, your questions here are mundane to me. what you really need/want is a good fight & a good cry. go to the gym, climb a mountain. i should. i have not answered you — in the way you would like — cos to be honest, it bores me. however, you — as a person — do not.
Meike Capps-Schubert: so this if fun , but still does that mean they only put out the fires of the people who payed for their service- and what makes it better – do they use evian water linke in the video?
Kyle Huwer: @Singrid: What does me and my CO or me and my wife have to do with this debate here? I will answer for you – nothing at all. You do not know me apart from what little tidbits you have read here and there. I am not angry at the world. Are you kidding me? I am the most peaceful person you will ever know. Obviously I will stand up for my beliefs but I am far from wanting a FIGHT. I have asked you many times to answer questions to better give me an understanding and you continually tap-dance around them. If you are going to debate, then DEBATE. Don’t pussy-foot with me. Just to let you know, I am quite active both on a personal sense and on a community/political sense. I have quite a nice life…. If the conversation and/or issue bores you, then quit responding… Simple. And thank you for not belittling me by calling me a kiddo this time around! Means a lot.
Kyle Huwer: @Meike: I didn’t quite get what you are saying but I will try to respond.
I think you are misunderstanding the issue with the FD.
In a public service the FD will use the city resources AND be paid by the city by tax dollars. With the public service there is no contract….
With the private service the FD will also use the city resources AND be paid by tax dollars. With the private service, there is a contract and if they do not do their job or do it well enough, they could lose their contract/job.
So, with the public option it does not matter how good or bad they do. Since there are no standards for termination or contract end date, they can do whatever. With a private service they are being watched. If they do a bad job then they can lose their contract job to someone else. So as a result, it is in their best interest to do it cheaply and provide good service.
This is a summary. But maybe you can understand this. If not, ask.

Formatting was no preserved. I don’t have time to format it all… Meike lives in Germany. Redjade I would assume lives in Hungary. And I have no idea where Singrid lives but I think they live in Germany as well.


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